Personalized Online Learning with Thinking Cap

About my guest:

Isobel Wallace has been with Thinking Cap since its inception in 2001 as General Manager. Specializing in process and user experience, Isobel works with customers to onboard their training programs into the LMS. Her valuable insights in the delivery of unique and engaging training programs for associations like NCPA, corporations like Amazon, and non-profit organizations like the British Council. Speak to Isobel about how to achieve 100% completion rates on your training.

More about Isobel Wallace

More about Thinking Cap

Transcript of the Interview

{Edited for Ease of Reading}

Petra Mayer  00:04

Hello, and welcome. My name is Petra Mayer, and I’m the CEO and founder of Petra & Associates Consulting. In today’s interview, I’m super excited to have Isabel Wallace with me. She is the General Manager of Thinking Cap, one of the learning management systems in the market. And if you are in the market for LMS. Then you might want to listen to this interview to learn if Thinking Cap is for you. Isobel, welcome to my interview series.

Isobel Wallace  00:32

Thank you, Hello.

Petra Mayer  00:33

I am really glad that you’re here. Because, as you know, I’m doing this content piece where I’m really defining a little bit more for listeners what the market situation is for learning management systems. So before we go into really identifying Thinking Cap in more detail. How would you characterize the market of learning management systems?

Isobel Wallace  00:58

It’s a large market. I will say there are definitely a very large number of LMS systems out there. And I think a lot of LMS systems with the core functionality that is pretty much the same. To be perfectly honest. There are some systems that are very regimented, and you can only do this thing. I think that is probably the largest pool of LMS systems out there.

And then there were a few around the edges of that where you can highly customize them. So I think from an LMS perspective, it’s really identifying which ones are extremely rigid. You can only put in a course and track it and didn’t see them complete are ones that allow you to offer more complicated program requirements, for example.

Petra Mayer  01:42

Yeah, I think you’re already speaking to kind of these different systems that I find are sitting in different pools or different levels, you might say. So what do you think are common misconceptions about learning management systems?

Isobel Wallace  01:57

I think people, when they come to these systems, they think that they think that everyone is very different from the one that they’ve seen before. But I think if you look under the hood there. I mean, a lot of it is defined by the fact that we all have to be SCORM-compliant. So under the hood is largely the same. We all have activities. We were all SCORM compliant. They all roll them up into things like learning paths or curriculum paths. And everyone has a different name for them. It’s all pretty much the same thing.

The core competency of most LMS is not understood to be pretty much the same across all of them. It’s where you get into how they support credits and re-enrollments and items like that, where things really start to differ. But I think that there are a lot of core competencies that most LMS have, and it’s how you need to deliver it. And if there are any of the sort of bells and whistles that you need to go beyond that. It is really where you need to identify the differences.

Petra Mayer  02:54

So I think what I hear you say is, if you’re looking for an LMS, you need to really look deep under the hood to find out what a specific LMS delivers and how they deliver on it. And you need to match it back to what you need in your business in order to select the LMS that provides you with the functionality you need but doesn’t necessarily cost to charge you for functionality that you don’t need.

Isobel Wallace  03:21

Oh, definitely, definitely. And I know the pricing models across all these illnesses are so different that you’re usually trying to compare apples to oranges. And maybe that’s a that doesn’t help at all. But the simplicity I think is easier. If we start with what do I need beyond just delivering the course? And then start start fine. Yeah.

Petra Mayer  03:43

So now, a lot of things have changed over the last few years, particularly since COVID. We’ve had so many changes in organizations, how did those changes, if at all, impact the trends in learning and online learning or in learning overall, and with that impact the choice of the system.

Isobel Wallace  04:03

And I will say in the last little while. We’ve had a lot more interest in gamification. It’s really just trying to keep interest into the training modules and trying to keep people engaged, and employee retention. So you know, everyone has to do that compliance training course once a year or once every other year. It’s like, how do you make them want to do it? So I am seeing a lot of gamification elements in there. I’m also seeing a lot more use of webinars over face-to-face obviously, that came up a lot during, but how they’re using those in their programs is changing a little bit.

So it’s breaking up what they would normally have done in a face-to-face with some slightly more interesting modules and then a face like a webinar session afterwards to just really highlight the bits that people may have got stuck on. You know what I mean? So a bit of splitting that up a little bit.

Everything a bit more of that, but I think that gamification, one, we’re seeing a lot more of that when it comes to where they’re making decisions about their LMS. So even if they’re not ready to jump on that bandwagon and get into it, we’re seeing a lot more questions around. Can you support learning points? Can you support badges and, and that approach, which I like and I get excited about? Because it means that they’re thinking about how to improve the way they’re delivering their programs, which I was.

Petra Mayer  05:22

Yeah, I think two years ago, the big questions that came to me were, you know, we’re delivering everything in person. And now we can’t do that anymore. How do we quickly switch over? What do we do? And I think, you know, they made that jump online. And as you just said, I think it’s now it’s their, their big pain point is, they found out wow, we can actually deliver learning cheaper, by not flying people all over the country and putting them all in the same room and into hotels and all that we can and safer, because we don’t have them all in the same room, either. But now the question is, well, how do we make our content stick? So we’ve given them content?

And yeah, they’ve gone through what they have to do. But did that really stick? And how do we get them engaging? So the gamification, I can totally see that there is more desire in that. And I also think what you were mentioning here with the webinars. Because, gosh, you know, if we think back four years ago, we were inundated with all these webinar invitations.

And people would go because it was exciting and new, and then they wouldn’t go anywhere because it was boring, and they really didn’t take as much away. But these interactive sessions is still so important when we want to deepen the learning. And we want people to have somebody to troubleshoot with and go through case studies and ask questions.

Isobel Wallace  05:39

It’s almost like taking that flipped classroom method approach to it, where you really are using the e-learning modules for what they’re best at. And using those face to face whether it’s, you know, actually in person or online, we’re still using those for what they’re good for, which is the direct engagement, being able to ask a question and get an answer. And yeah, so I am a big proponent of that.

Petra Mayer  07:05

So you know, let’s talk a little bit about Thinking Cap, then; how does Thinking Cap match these new demands in the market that we have with gamification with badges, points, and also interactive live sessions.

Isobel Wallace  07:23

So we support all of those. Mostly because, you know, you get a request from a client and you start investing in that sounds amazing. And we did that years ago and started really just evolving it. So we have, we have a lot of features around managing webinar sessions and recurring sessions, so that they’re easier to schedule, integrations with, you know, all the webinar providers, which of course, all changed during COVID. So you had to redo them all.

Yeah, we’ve all got. We’ve all been there. But yeah, so you do all of the needs for how you manage your your webinars and how you get those out to your learners they are LMS is really good for that. It’s also, and maybe we can delve into that a little bit more later. But it’s all about how you match your users to those activities. And then afterwards, how you reward them for completing it. So sometimes the rewards can entice people in. Sometimes the rewards are unnecessary rewards they have to get. Because you know, you want to stay certified in something so. So all of those features are a big part of what we do.

And mostly because our focus here is, is getting down to what your actual program training requirements are. What are the objectives? What are you trying to get out of this training? Why are you buying an LMS to begin with, right? And then from that information identifying well, because of that, then we know that in order to make sure that it’s good, we need to have these reports.

We also, therefore, know that in order to make sure that that improves, we need to add all these elements in and that’s sort of the approach we take with every new content, but every new client that comes on, and I think that’s the best way to look at it from any from any onboarding process, that our LMS is is pretty customizable, and that you can use it as as little or as much of it as you need, depending on what your requirements are. And I think that’s sort of one of our biggest, greatest benefits.

Petra Mayer  09:19

So what I hear is that you seem to be very, how shall I even say that you’re, you seem to really tap into what your client’s needs are, and a support the client in satisfying these needs with what you’ve got off the shelf, but also be open to thinking about oh, we haven’t got that yet. So maybe we need to because there is a there is a good valid demand for that. Is that right? Do I hear that correctly?

Isobel Wallace  09:47

That is definitely right. And I would also say that like we have an event once a year that we call thinking camp where we invite our especially our customers that really use the software in the most, you know, complex ways, they come and join us and all of our staff and we sit down and we build the roadmap for the next year together. So it’s a this is what we did this year, did this work? Did it not work? What’s the best way to approach this?

What could we be doing something more efficiently? And we look at everything, every request we have, we have clients that come with lists, like I really want to get into doing this, this year, and I’m looking at the features and how would you do that?

And is there anything that could make that easier for us and, and it’s not just the clients coming in with these ideas, we have our developers or QA or project managers or support or management, we’re all in the same room, and we’re all looking at how best to achieve that. So yeah, our clients really do drive our roadmap and our and what our features are,

Petra Mayer  10:46

I really liked that, because I think that you are growing with the needs of the market. So you know, we’ve seen so many changes over the last few years, obviously, before there was huge changes, even getting learning online. But now, the changes are so swift, that you are willing to change with the market and and take the lead also from your clients. I love that. So when we’re thinking about an organization who wants to implement online learning, or wants to switch from a learning system that they’re not happy with? What do they need to keep in mind before signing up with any system?

Isobel Wallace  11:24

So I definitely would love when you’re writing an e-learning course, you always start off with your learning objectives. I think when you’re looking at switching from one LMS to another or even starting with your first LMS, it’s really what are your program objectives?

What are the requirements for what it is you have to deliver? So if you’re looking at setting up a new or or or moving over an already existing certification program, for example, then you know that your requirements are that the people who are your members have to do the specific training and they have to do they have to get a certain number of credits in these areas over this timeframe.

Knowing that information, and even just even if you know it off by heart, just writing it down and documenting it. Even if you were to provide that to the LMS salesperson, they were able to say well, yeah, we can do this, this, this, this and not this.

Or we can do this, this and this, if you thought about doing that thing this way, you can get a lot more conversational, which I think during the sales process is a lot more useful, right, being able to have the conversations about well, have you ever implemented anything like that before?

How did they implement it, you have examples of that. Those are the things I think are the most useful, get started approaches. But really knowing and having a good understanding of what the requirements are before you start with those objectives are, I think are where I would start.

Petra Mayer  12:43

You definitely speak my language in an area that I’m so passionate about. I often have clients come to me and they say, oh, I’ve just signed up with the system. Now how can we make this work? And they haven’t even thought about what the training looks like. I also find more and more clients who have so many different use cases. I mean, you were mentioning certifications. So you might have some compliance systems, you have a new client onboarding, you might want to use the system for externals, like your clients, or maybe distribution partners.

They all have different needs. And sometimes I think clients are putting them all in the same. They’re striking them with the same brush as if they had the same needs. I find it so important to really go down by audience and define the needs by audience and then prioritize. Would you see? Do you see something like that when clients come to you?

Isobel Wallace  13:36

Definitely, we get a lot of people who don’t think about the fact that they could be delivering different parts of their training to different audiences in a different way. So we always look at breaking down their training audience and building a learner journey for that audience. Because within our LMS, we allow you to set up branches. So you could be delivering a client compliance program as well as an employee onboarding, as well as an external vendor training as well as right. So you could be doing all of those things at once.

But how you deliver those and who you’re delivering it to are extremely different. And sometimes there are security things like student security requirements, were the things you’re delivering to your employee onboard, she never get out beyond that area. So having that consideration and having that understanding about how to manage the training and how you would set it up is definitely very key.

But from a learning journey perspective, I always focus on audience by audience, and a lot of the time that helps flesh out some of the details about what those requirements are that maybe the client may not have thought of, or they know that they just never thought about how to communicate that as well.

Petra Mayer  14:42

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So what would you say who is the ideal user for Thinking Cap?

Isobel Wallace  14:50

My ideal user is always someone who comes with an excitement about their program. Someone who I mean he could it could be the most boring All right, I’ve got to teach someone how to, you know, I can’t even think of the most boring subject, everybody could be whatever that horribly boring subject is, as long as you have a passion for it, and you want to make that program better.

I want to make sure that they have higher scores that they, that they are, they sign up for more, they self discover more content or whatever, whatever that thing is that they’re excited about, those are my favorites. But the ideal user is someone who has a requirement to do something out there that is, every project is different, every person’s interested. And the problem is all of our clients are different.

Because we a lot of our clients have different such varying different needs, even though they follow a similar similar patterns. The exciting thing about every one of our clients is that they all do it in a different way. So it’s not we don’t really have like a standard client base. Like we have some programs where there’s one LMS admin, they’re doing it part time, and they’re enrolling hundreds of 1000s of people, or we have some clients where they’ve got, you know, a whole team of LMS people who are building all these new courses.

And, you know, that’s just because they have to deliver a whole bunch of content to their audience. So, so our audience for for, like, our clients are very, very different. And I kind of like that.

Petra Mayer  16:18

However, what I’m hearing here is I think you are looking for clients who are looking for custom solutions, and they’re looking for somebody to help them to really achieve the best they can with a custom solution that that can be adapting to their internal needs, versus you have a system that’s off the shelf, and you’re just plugging to it.

Isobel Wallace  16:42

Yeah. And honestly, I think I want to I know, I know, it sounds like I’m saying that, but I think that the more you actually look at your own program, the more you need to go beyond the, you know, the off the shelf, it can only do this thing, thing, because if you ever are trying to train, like anytime, if you’re trying to teach a kid something, how you teach this kid versus another kid, that same thing is going to be different.

And the more that you figure out your program, and the more you know about the program, the more you’re going to see that, that off the shelf box thing is different. So I guess my ideal client, someone who recognizes that any, any training program need isn’t exactly the same as the next one. And therefore, those systems are never going to work because they are exactly the same as the other system. Right, though. For me, that’s, I think, my ideal client.

Petra Mayer  17:31

So let’s look at perhaps some of the demographics of your clients. Would you say that Thinking Cap is for a certain size of company or a certain industry?

Isobel Wallace  17:41

And that would also not be an easy answer. We have, like we have small businesses that use our system for a small number of users happily, because it just it’s, you know that it does the thing it needs them to do. And once they’re set up, it just it automates, and it does that. And usually, that’s when you have a part time person who’s trying to manage something.

But then we also have clients like Amazon’s one of our clients, and that couldn’t be more opposite, and that they have millions of users and they’re trying to train on complete variety of different things. And each team is delivering completely different training. So. So it really does vary for us.

They kind of fall into a few buckets, I guess, if that helps. We have a lot of people doing employee training. We also have a number of clients that are doing, like associations that are doing sort of running some sort of certification program. And a lot of people doing upscaling. So whether it’s it’s just trying to get people to come in and improve their skills. So a lot of self discovery, a lot of a lot of enticing people to come in and learn more. There was a South sort of the buckets that that we do, but it’s also a gray area, because some of those span multiples. So it’s interesting. Yeah.

Petra Mayer  19:00

Sorry, sorry, Isobel.

Isobel Wallace  19:02

Oh I was just gonna say that, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t say that we’re good at any one of those, like better at any one of those areas. Because I think it really depends on how you use the system, it can handle a small number of users really easily, you can also handle millions of users really easily. So.

Petra Mayer  19:17

Okay. And so where do you think are the features, we’re Thinking Cap excels and is perhaps best of class.

Isobel Wallace  19:26

And we always look at trying to set up a system that manages itself as much as possible. And we use that using what we call a rule sets. So you can define, I always need this course to run and we handle people every two years that match these rules. And because these are the regulations if you need to take this course, right, and it will just complete running and it’ll automatically send the notifications it’ll automatically do the enrollment. It’ll automatically pull people if they no longer match those requirements anymore.

So for us, it’s um for our clients, it’s that you can do a lot with the system without having to touch it on a day to day basis, it just automatically runs. And that is that that touches the so many different areas within the LMS. From enrollment from how these, how these users move from from branch to branch, even if they need to bid every aspect of the LMS, we try to automate it as much as possible with with logic that you get to decide how you need to set up that logic what that requirement is.

Petra Mayer  20:30

And then I always know that when there was a lot of a lot of logic involved, or rules involved or permissions involved, it obviously needs a bit more thinking, thinking, thinking on the side of the administration, and the setup in there initially. So what does a typical implementation for Thinking Capital look like?

Isobel Wallace  20:54

So the very first part is our onboarding team will will meet with you and we, we set so that our objective for our onboarding team is that we set it up for you. And while we’re setting it up, we’re asking all the questions we need to ask, we’re collecting all the data, all the content that we need to along the way, while you’re also going through some training on the LMS. So that by the time you’re ready to launch, you know how to use the LMS. Everything is set up for you.

That is really the objective of our onboarding program. And as we onboard, obviously, we’re looking at how it needs to be set up why it needs to be set up that way. Our clients see it evolve. So you know, the first day of the first meeting they they log into the LMS, they have a user account, they’re in there, there’s nothing there yet, the second time we meet with them, we start seeing some of their branding approach, we start seeing some of their activities loading in. So they see that they see it evolve and in a very agile approach to the to the setup, so they see everything about so they have a chance to say, You know what, we don’t want to set it up that way anymore. We want to set up this way now that we see this over here.

Right? So knowing that also what you think you’re you want out of a system at the very beginning. And what you want at the end of that project aren’t always going to be the same, it gives them a bit of a chance during that process to change their minds as well. But the objective is always, when you’re ready to launch that program in our system. That’s where we’re going to hand you the key where you’ll have the keys all along. But that’s when we allow you to take over the day to day management of it. And by that point, you’ll know how the system works and how to do all of that.

Petra Mayer  22:30

So it’s interesting how you’re describing it. Obviously, I’ve been through a number of learning management system implementation projects, and, and they’re all different depending on how the LMS wants to run an implementation, and also how the client can devote time and resource and effort to it. This sounds it’s, it sounds very agile, it sounds very collaborative, how you’re describing it, it’s a collaborative effort to come up with the best possible system for the needs of that particular client.

Isobel Wallace  23:04

Definitely, and we actually wrote a book on agile project management methodologies years ago. So we are we’re all in on the on the agile approach to to any project, whether it’s development or even just implementation because, because yeah, you have to be able to accommodate and I don’t want to have to give you change, or adapt or change order on stuff, I just want to know, there’s flexibility. So if a client is thinking they want to set up this credit program, and then halfway through, they get approved for, for a new regulatory agency to auto report, we’re gonna include that because we now know you, you can do that.

And it’s just a matter of setting up that integration. And it’s part of the onboarding. So yeah, we definitely make sure that, that during that process, there is give and take like there is there has to be the communication through it to make sure that a you understand what you’re asking us to do and be them who’ve done it you understand what it is we did. So yeah, definitely. I’m big on communication during that process.

Petra Mayer  24:02

And so what happens after that, so you know, the the system is set up, and you were saying, you know, we go into a project like this with one vision, and then we come out and have a very different vision and things have to change along the way. You’ve handed over the key. Now the administrator is the primary person. What happens when other changes happen along the way later on? Or they they struggle with something there’s a there’s a team change on client side, and the new team coming in didn’t get the benefits of being part of the onboarding process. How do you support your clients then?

Isobel Wallace  24:35

So, the onboarding team is always available. If if a question comes up when we do answer questions, but we usually do what we call a handover, where we walk our support team through what it was we set up and why we set it up that way. They have access to meeting recordings so they can see what that conversation was if they need to for context that we usually we document a lot of what we do and why we do it and We use the same system to track all of that work that our support team are in.

So that they can they can always go back and review and say, why was it oh, I can see through that thread. That’s why that domain or that, that, that you were always used here. So they so that we are completely open with our internal team on how things are set up and why they are set up that way. But we do handover meetings. So our support, people will then take over and the person that manages that team will be checking in regularly to make sure that you have what you need. And technically, that person is also in charge of training.

So they already know who you are anyway, and the trainer has given them feedback on questions that come up, because we, we talked to the training team as well, a lot of communication internally. So we talked to the training team, when they say, I just did this session, they were asking a lot of questions about this.

Or we will say when you do that training session on this, make sure you include a lot of like, do a deeper dive into this area, because they’re gonna be using it a lot. So there is a lot of communication throughout that process. But we have because we’re all agile, we meet as a team every day. So our support team can say I was just talking to this client, and they were asking about this, and anyone who’s worked on it for any part of it will be able to say, Oh, they’re asking about that because of this. And you can add context if need be. So yeah, we are, we’re big in communication from that perspective.

Petra Mayer  26:17

So something that is probably so natural for you, and you don’t even think about talking about it. And it’s so important you have a support team that somebody can speak to, this doesn’t happen for every LMS, we should be aware of that there is LMS’ where maybe you can submit a ticket, but you will never get anybody on the phone. So having somebody that you can talk to. Who can then internally talk to somebody who actually was on the setup team is huge. And really something that I recommend. Stand out as somebody who has that support once the system has been handed over. A lot of clients struggle later.

Isobel Wallace  26:59

I find that I have to remind clients, you can call you know, you can, you can not get it. But if you if you’re in the moment, and you’re just you just need to answer that question. It’s okay to pick up the phone and call support, they will answer and they will be able to give you the answer right, then you don’t have to log a ticket. If you’re just yeah, sometimes you log the ticket, because you just want to know and but we also have rules about how fast that we get back to our clients.

So if you log a ticket, within hours, you’re gonna get a response anyway. But yeah, if you’re in there, the phone, I have some I surprises me. And maybe this is maybe I should, shouldn’t be surprised. But it does surprise me that I have to sometimes remind people, it’s okay to call our support people, you know.

Petra Mayer  27:42

Oh, in how many industries can we still do that? You know, I think that is special for you. So it’s a big selling point, I think because clients taking over a system and knowing that there is such a shift over in HR and their team members, people who have been there before implementing the team are often not there anymore a year later, and new people coming in.

And they don’t have that knowledge because clients aren’t that good and documentation of everything that they did and why they did it and how it’s been done. So I think that’s a big, a big selling factor for you. So let’s talk a little bit about pricing model. You said earlier, there’s such a great variety of pricing models for learning management systems. So how do you price for your clients?

Isobel Wallace  28:30

For us, it’s based on active users. So if you have a seat for us as a user that’s in the system that is an active user, just trying to keep it as simple as possible. You can. And we do recommend if your user is no longer there, so say for example, an employee that left just deactivate the account, you don’t have to lose their data, we don’t charge you for that data in any way, shape, or form. Just if they’re if you have an active employee, and you need them to learn, get them into our system. And that is the only thing that we charge for. They could take a million courses in there, it’s still the same fee.

Petra Mayer  29:03

And do you have a minimum number of users active users that you charge for?

Isobel Wallace  29:08

I think 500 right now is the minimum that our salespeople will be able to walk you through what the different levels are. And if need be they can, they can help put together a custom quote if you need a custom quote, as well.

Petra Mayer  29:25

So it’s an annual fee, basically, and no setup fee.

Isobel Wallace  29:29

No setup a because we don’t want anyone to say no to the onboarding, to be perfectly honest. Because I think that if I don’t want to set a client up to fail, and I feel like charging an onboarding fee that someone might say no to might be setting them up to fail in a way because you’re not giving them you’re gonna train them and then it’s everyone’s everyone’s had that situation where you walk into a system you know nothing about even with some training, it’s still about know how to add where do I start? So yeah, we include that we we include that as almost like our loss leader in a way, because I’d much rather someone go through the onboarding and fully understand the system and be set up for a successful program, then not and get disheartened.

Petra Mayer  30:13

And what are pros and cons when we’re looking at customization, you were, I think, almost like, I want to use the term personalization for your company from what I’m hearing here, you really personalizing it to the persona of the client company, of their objectives, their very individual needs. So I think that’s that’s different to customization. But I also know that clients go through kind of customizations when they are setting things up. What are the pros and cons for customization that a client needs to consider.

Isobel Wallace  30:52

And well, for us any customization that someone asks for, generally, we review it, and we confirm that it’s something that we think is a really valuable addition to the LMS. But once that’s in there is now a feature that becomes available to all of our customers. So from a pro perspective, because we allow this means that an example, years ago.

We had a client who asked us to set up an integration with Zendesk. And then, the next year at our thinking camp session. We found out that another client saw that and started using and what we send us because that integration was there. So there are one of the pros is that even if you don’t pay for it, someone else might pay for that customization, in which case, that’s great.

And you get the benefit of that. I do push back when someone is asking for a customization and, and there’s no reason for it, it just is a shiny toy. So we do, we do try to make sure that there is a reason for it and try to try to make sure that there is a purpose for it, we’re not going to add something just because someone thinks it’s a cool idea. And there’s no objective for their training that meets that this would meet that requirement for so.

So we do push back maybe a little bit on that. But I think from a con perspective, because it becomes part of the whole LMS. I don’t know if there really is a con because we as soon as it’s part of the LMS it gets added to all our automated tests, it gets added to the documentation, it becomes as if it’s a feature within the LMS. So we don’t treat it like a separate add on that we’ve made for you. And then it could right over time, we don’t do that.

Petra Mayer  32:29

Awesome. Now, in closing, what is one thing that you wish all clients knew before they come to you?

Isobel Wallace  32:39

I think it’s really what they’re looking to get out of the LMS. And I know that sounds I know that sounds really basic. I mean, if they’re looking to do some advanced stuff with SCORM, just let me know what event stuff was call me you want to do, and I’ll have a fantastic conversation about it. Don’t get me started on SCORM. I love SCORM. I think honestly just to understand and be able to communicate what it is that they are looking for. What their objectives are is, is really all I need. And that’s that’s what I need. I feel like my job is to make sure that you understand how we will be able to deliver that.

Petra Mayer  33:20

It’s funny that you say it sounds so basic. And I often have clients when I started on the working journey with them. That’s obviously what I need to figure out. What is it that you that you need? What is it that you want is what you want really something that you’re willing to pay for? It is such a big question, and I just had a session yesterday with a new client and we’re looking at became for an LMS. I’m not sure they need an LMS.

But it’s just really figuring out what they need and going through this session. And at the end, they said, you know, wow, we’re clear now, because of the questions you’ve asked of what it is that you need. It is not it seems basic, but it is not easy. And so that’s a discovery that I think every client has to has to go through before they start with a system.

Isobel Wallace  34:08

A lot of nines are going through the onboarding process. They think they know what it is they want, and they have these requirements. And then, as you start delving into the setup of that and meet that requirement. They were thought about this thing, and then you have that great conversation that sparks this. Oh, it’d be great if we were to do that.

And then sometimes it becomes an addition to what they were originally looking for. Those are fun. I like those meetings too. Because yeah, you’re you’re adding to the to the program, you’re adding more benefit and value add to the program, but it’s also sometimes you just until someone asked that question. You don’t know you’re right. That is actually a requirement for what we’re going to do. So yeah, Discovery Park can be fun.

Petra Mayer  34:52

Yes, absolutely. Isobel, I’m so glad that I had you on for this interview. It’s very inspiring. I’d love to learn more about Thinking Cap. This was really interesting for me to learn more about how you approach any client projects. I really appreciate your time today

Isobel Wallace  35:11

Thank you very much it was wonderful.

About the author 

Cristina McPherson

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